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I think there's going to be more and more of a space for short films on YouTube. So instead of watching a longer form film, like an hour episode, people
might come on to YouTube and watch, I don't know, four short films that are 15 minutes. There's also this space of taking someone in and being like, look
at these 10 minutes. We're going to make you feel as much as possible, as quick as possible. How did you feel? >> Hey guys, I'm uh I'm excited to say that
today's episode, it's going to be interactive with Click. Uh on click you can give real time feedback uh answer questions browse through galleries offer
your own uh personal opinions just as if you were there uh with us in this conversation. If you're interested please click on the link down below.
Noah and Julie are a dynamic duo whose short films have reached 3 million viewers worldwide. They share meaningful naturalistic stories with a magical undertone. What's crazy is that these
guys are both 19. They're both very intelligent emotionally as well. And they join me today to discuss their work and a little bit about who they are and
navigating film at a young age. Together they founded Breathing Films, aspiring to continue creating films with real impact. Guys, super excited to be
talking with you two today. You guys are like a dynamic duo uh creating meaningful films that I've been very lucky to watch. Now, you guys met at 11
years old if I'm not mistaken. >> Correct. >> We did. Yeah. We met at uh what we call secondary school. So, I think that's
middle school in America. Um and then yeah, we met at 11:00 and started making films and we've kind of been working together since then, haven't we? So,
>> yeah. Um but thank you for having us. It's a pleasure to be here. >> Yeah. I'm I'm very excited to have you guys. I mean, the two of you working
together since 11, making super cool films before you're 20. Like, I'm 23 and I'm trying to get to the level that you guys are at, which is so impressive. And
I I can't wait to see what you guys accomplish, you know, as as you keep going down the road. Now, are you two uh
in university right now? >> Uh so, actually, that's Yeah, it's a bit of an interesting one. So, we did 2 years of film college, which I'm still
figuring out, >> high school. >> High school in America. >> Uh, where we studied film. We did a bunch of practical learning and we
learned a lot there. And then when we got to the end of that, we kind of felt like we were really we just wanted to go
and tried to make some films uh outside of education and see where we ended up. Because it's almost like >> that way cuz at that period we were
thinking like when you come out of university you kind of have to face the sort of world of work. I don't know if you experienced that well as you told us
already. It's kind of like you finish education and it's like right okay now I've got to do this for real. So it was a little bit like we wanted to try and
just jump straight into that uh instead of going to university. And I think sometimes if you know you want to do film um in a lot of ways it can be just
as useful just getting on and making your own stuff as it is studying. So we sort of chose that route. Um um yeah it's yeah it's an interesting route like
sometimes it's feels really great and you get amazing stuff done you meet amazing people and it's a little bit we found at least for us it's a little bit
more freeing in terms of like we can choose when we want to attend events or make a new film. We've got a bit of a
looser more uh fluid independent schedule. Yeah. >> But then sometimes it feels a little bit offsetting and weird that we're not in like a locked schedule and sometimes we
need to kind of sit down and figure out what we're going to do next, find a plan, decide what we're inspired about, and then work from there. Um, but
overall, it's been really good. >> Yeah, I I I think that's super cool. I mean, I spent four years and a lot of my
time in in college, like it wasn't actually applicable. It was very theoretical >> and yeah, it makes diving into like the real world a lot more challenging
because you're kind of building the airplane as you go. So you guys taking this different approach and jumping in earlier on. Uh I think the real world is
the it's the best teacher. >> Yeah, for sure. There there was a there was actually a period uh I remember where we finished college and we were
like okay now >> now now we're out and we tried to almost make our own sort of curriculum. >> Yeah. Do you remember that?
>> Yeah. We called it like our self uh university like >> trying to decide like if we were going to choose >> uh fantastical teachers that would like
we'd have something that would teach us a skill, >> what would that be? And then we were like thinking >> like spend a month making a spec
commercial and then next month we'd I don't know try and do something that focuses on editing and try and teach ourselves almost like you would in
university but just outside of university. >> Yeah. It's like understanding like we looked I think I remember really early on now I know what you're talking about
is like we looked and we were like okay we feel like we were weak in lighting and we felt like we were weaker in doing
like fast cuts edits in short films or grabbing people's attention. So we wrote some projects that like specifically focused on those and then tried to make
it so like for example on our breathing film site on YouTube the short film titled week one was an example of that. I think it's like a super short film but
just fully focusing on doing super fast cuts and seeing how that goes. >> Yeah. It's like you're learning based off of the problems and where you guys
fall short. And you're guys doing this with projects, too. Like rather than learning about it in the classroom and then not actually applying it, you're
like, "Oh, my lighting is not too good. Let's create a project that exclusively focuses on writing or with uh captivating your audience, which is
essential today." Now, in film, you guys are creating uh projects to do so as well. I noticed one thing that I really like that you two did. Um, after
watching Time Piece, you guys actually made another YouTube video about how you created Time Piece, which which was such such a cool uh such a cool concept.
>> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that was that was quite fun. Yeah. That was a sort of an experiment. That was when we were first sort of figuring
out what we wanted to do with the YouTube channel, I think. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like deciding because Yeah. With a YouTube channel, it's kind of we
at least what we figured out is it's kind of a journey of discovering your identity because it's obviously you have people that follow you and it's kind of
this path of choosing, oh, what do people that enjoy our content also like to see and what do we enjoy to make >> and then kind of finding a connection
between those and something that we can make together. >> Yeah. Um, now you guys were talking about creating your own curriculum. How
how important is it that you guys have each other by your side to hold both of you accountable to each project? Cuz if I was to do it on my own, there's no way
I could stick to like a solo curriculum. >> Oh, yeah. It's great. I think h that's one of the things that I think is most
valuable about our relationship is the fact that we kind of have each other to motivate each other. So like when we're working on a project, it's different to
when you do something yourself. It's sort of like because we're both doing it, we always have each other to rely on. So say I'm like not as inspired, I
can lean on Julie and then he'll come back with something and then you know >> Yeah. And as a work relationship, there's also like we've been friends for
ages. It's there's also a little bit of a sense of um being competitive, like a friendly competitive nature to it of like, oh look, I just discovered that
Noah did some really good work on this project and I really admire what he did. Then I go home and I'm like, oh, maybe I
should get it together and do some work as well. >> It keeps us pushing. Um but yeah, I think it's important to have something
to bounce off of with that. It helps us for sure. >> Yeah, I I fully agree. I mean especially in film making it it's such a
collaborative project right people people having different ideas them coming together some falling out but the two kind like hybridizing to create one one overall vision I think the
collaboration part is quite essential >> I think it's the most collaborative art form isn't it film
>> yeah I don't think there's I'm trying to think if there's anything more collaborative But nothing comes to mind. >> Yeah, it does just drag in people from
everywhere to kind of work together on one goal. Um, but that's I think one of the reasons that we love it so much is
in YouTube, but just in short films as well and festivals is that a massive part of it is being social and meeting people from like all walks of life that
are all inspired to kind of chase the same thing. Um, so you meet great people. Um, yeah. >> I mean, it's why I love doing the
podcast. Like, I get to meet filmmakers and that in turn inspires me like the competitiveness that you guys have. Watching people like you put out really
great work on my end. >> You watch a lot of short So, you you go through a lot of short films on YouTube and Vimeo, right?
>> I do. >> To find people. Yeah. I feel like YouTube and Vimeo are like, especially YouTube, is becoming kind of like a a
really good space for that sort of short form narrative stuff now. Like it feels like a really growing space. >> Oh yeah. I mean, the views on YouTube
compared to Vimeo, it's night and it's night and day. >> Do you guys Is that why you guys choose to post more on YouTube than anywhere
else? >> I think I don't know what originally got us on YouTube. I think why I would almost if like now from what I know the
reason why I like to stay is at least from my experience the analytical side of YouTube is really useful like there's a lot of data that you can go into and
learn about >> Noah's in a course now learning more about YouTube as well um that's been really informing us >> uh but just the fact that you can post
something that's purely creative that you don't really know how it's going to perform and then once once it performs or once something happens to it, whether
it's successful or not. Uh, in terms of analytical value, you can look back at it and decide how it went. And >> you can kind of see why. It's amazing
where you can, >> it's almost like you can be creative and then afterwards see why certain things worked and why certain things didn't. And almost you've got that direct
view of being able to see what your audience likes as well, which is really interesting. I think it's quite unique. >> Yeah. I'm not sure also I'm not sure if
YouTube um if Vimeo has a comment section, but that's also another place that we really like looking through cuz you can kind of get a little bit of a
feed of how your audience feels about what they're watching. >> Yeah, the the Vimeo it does have a comment section, but I don't think it's
as interactive as the YouTube one. And it feels like there's more of a loyal community on YouTube because people are subscribing with you. They're
interacting with what you've made. And I feel like there's more freedom to show the behind the scenes and more of your personality on YouTube.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, how it it kind of blows me away how analytical you two are, especially when it comes to the YouTube algorithm and
and creating uh content accordingly. Now, what how much do you keep that in mind when you guys are creating uh short
films versus the versus sticking true to what you guys want to create? Yeah, this is really interesting actually because so quite recently with
with 1 second late um which is our most recent film that was a film where while writing I was considering what did
people who watched Time Piece like about time piece and trying to catch a sense of that feeling in 1 second late. It was the first time that we ever did
that where we tried to make a film sort of considering what would perform well and what our audience would actually like. Um, and yeah, that was quite
unique. It was the first time I think we'd ever done that. >> Yeah, it's like kind of a little bit of a shot in the dark of like an experiment
of Yeah, like Nurse said, what would happen if we specifically shape a short film targeted at the people and YouTube and people that like watching our
content? Uh, and then to be honest with the rest of the films mostly it's been kind of a balance of deciding what we definitely want to keep and what we
really enjoy making and the characters that we believe in and the settings that we like and then kind of combining that with the aesthetic of
what our channel already was and what we want to explore next in a way. like merging the unknown of things that we haven't done with the stuff that we know
works and then putting it out there. And as long as we can make an audience member feel anything, then I think we agree that we've succeeded.
>> Yeah. And I think there is kind of Sorry, you going to say something or >> Oh, no. Please continue. >> Okay. Um, yeah, I think there's kind of
a there's there's a bit of a balance sometimes as a creative between making what you really really love and what you
believe in versus considering what the audience is going to really like and and there's a balance between that. It's kind of like you make the thing that you
think is going to be really really good and you like, but then you also have to consider what's going to work on YouTube and what the audience is going to like.
Um, so that's still a balance that I think we're still learning and is kind of a Yeah. a process. >> Yeah. >> How how do you guys how do you guys have
how how have you guys come to that mindset because you're you're early on. I mean, in a sense early on, right? You two have been doing this since 11, but
being open to creating work that makes your audience happy while still is you. M >> well I mean in some ways it's like if we
want to make the YouTube channel sustainable it we have to consider the audience I think especially as artists I think if you don't consider your
audience and who you're making it for I feel like yeah I don't know you're missing you're missing something there. Yeah, it's it's there's definitely like
a learning process balance it cuz in some way if you look at it on the dark side of it or the more uh intimidating
side to some extent you're like feeding the beast like the audience is at the end of the day the ultimate judge of a piece of content or a short film. If
they don't like it then nobody really will see it. And then on the other extent you need to input some of your own creative decisions and not only go
to that otherwise I think we lose the inspiration and the voice to like put out there. >> Um but yeah it's I think it's a constant
balance and like trying to find something that works for us. >> Yeah. No, that makes me curious who who is your audience? Who are the people who
are watching your short films? And who are the people that you're making feel something? >> Well, it's interesting. So, I mean, you can look at it in a sense of like
geographically and sort of age demographics who they are. Like we've got quite a lot of people in the US and also quite a lot of people in India as
well. Um, so you you can kind of look at the audience in that sense. And then also there's the sense of like who are
they in terms of what kind of stories do they enjoy seeing? And I think we're discovering the kind of short film style
and aesthetic that our audience seems to enjoy, which is kind of like I get you you'll see it if you watch Time Piece and One Second Late. It's sort of like
things that are quite thoughtful, hopefully emotioning, cinematic, that kind of thing I think are the kind of stories that resonate. >> Um, >> yeah.
>> Yeah, I agree. I think it's we kind of we did an exercise a couple of months ago of kind of trying to imagine like if
we were going to draw a person on a page and write around them everything that they are as a person or what they enjoy
and the kind of uh personality that they are then who would that be and we kind of experimented with what we felt uh our
audience would be as like an average. >> Yeah. So, so almost like describing a typical audience member and giving them a name and like a location and like and
it was quite cool because then when you go to write the next film it's like right I'm thinking of Varun from India who lives in this city and does this as
his job and that's who our audience is. >> Yeah. I I think that's so cool that you guys are keeping in mind who your
audience is and and tailoring your short films according to them because at the end of the day, what I I love about film is
you capture a feeling. You try and bring a feeling to your audience and it's so hard to quantify that. It's so hard to put that into
into numbers. It's really about putting a version of yourself and your thoughts out there for people to resonate with. And I I think that's I think that's such
a, you know, easily spoken thing to do, but very hard to create at the same time. I know you two are very meticulous
in your planning, watching the, you know, behind the scenes of of time piece. the amount of thought that you two put in into creating something like
every single frame, every single bit, there's thought put in thought put into it. And what I want to know here is how
do you guys go about capturing emotion? Like that that's that's the goal. How do you guys do that? Well, to be honest, we can both speak on
this, but I think it's just when you're coming up with ideas, what makes you feel something? Like if if something makes you laugh or if something makes us
both go, "Oh, that that's a nice emotional beat." Then hopefully that will make others feel like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I definitely agree. It's
like I think to an extent it is like no said like a personal thing of like we've got a certain kind of comedy that really
gets us or really makes us laugh or we have a certain theme in like a fantasy or some kind of more emotional piece like time piece that really just clicks
and makes us think oh if we were in that situation this would feel crazy or it would feel incredible. And if we feel like that, then I think we kind of want
to chase that and see where it goes if we turned it into a film. >> But it's interesting. I feel like it's probably different with everyone. Like,
can you think of any Have you asked this question to other guests? Cuz I'd be curious to hear about like, you know, what other filmmakers say in response to
that. >> Yeah. >> They they literally say the same thing that you guys are saying. If >> if it makes them feel something, there's
some sort of truth to that. But here's here's the second part though, right? >> In in film as it becomes more collaborative, there's a lot of other
people in the puzzle, a lot more opinions, right? Especially when it comes down to money. So then the hard part is how do I keep my vision going
forward while still making sure that the players involved that they're satisfied? And I mean, in a sense, you guys are doing this with your YouTube audience,
right? Like you're you're following that feeling. you're trying to put that into into film >> while keeping in mind you know that that guy from India at at his day job
>> uh at the same time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting and I mean like when you're also when you're working with collaborators like who are
help who like part of the project um so yeah like when you're work for example working with an actor or an actress they're they're going to come in with
their own creative input and it's kind of I guess all of film making is about getting the best out of all of the creative collaborators and sort of
trying to direct them towards the making the same film as good as possible. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To some extent it is like a battle of understanding or a
battle of like seeing on the same level. Um but then in a way we also experiment I think like if we have a film that
we're not completely set on how a character should behave for example or something then when we bring in the actor we'll see that oh we really like
the way that this person was acting and we're like oh we bet they have some ideas of how this conversation should go and stuff. And a lot of the times that
improves the film massively and they get to be a bigger part of that which is great. >> I can give us a real example of that. So
we we recently shot a new film that we're editing currently that's going to come out on the channel. Um and it's actually a comedy. So it's our first
time doing something that's explicitly a comedy. Um and we worked with a friend of ours who we met a while ago in Italy on a residential called Edy.
>> Shout out to Edy. Shout out to Edie. >> Shout out to her. >> And she uh yeah, she brought loads to the character. Like we we had we had a
character in our in our minds, but then when we started working with her, it was like she'd have an idea and then we'd be
like, "Oh, right. Oh, that's that's a really interesting point of view on the character." And it's almost like, you know, the actor is the one who knows
their character the best, right? So, as as directors, you've got to listen to the the actor and and hear what they want to say because a lot of the time
their instincts are right. >> Yeah. And sometimes their instincts are like really um like instinctive things that we would like almost brush over in a way or like
because they're so nuanced it would be like we have these bigger ideas or no we'll have these bigger ideas and then the actor will just say something that's
like oh yeah of course that's obvious but we didn't think about that until you said it and now we should definitely include it. Um so it's yeah I think it's
like a balance of finding enough input from the collaborators in general uh but then also explaining the idea so they can
have their own thoughts on it. >> You know I um I I never considered the amount of creative input that actors can
actors can have. And I'm kind of ra like thinking or like digesting this like actors know their character the most,
but you guys are also creating those characters at the same time. So, how does how does that work? >> Well, you kind of I think it's almost a
conversation. Like good actors, they'll come as like a blank slate and they'll really listen and they'll read the script and they'll hear what you're
trying to say and embody that. But then once they start embodying that and then you you're sort of you get them to the to your where you're imagining the
character is. A lot of the time they'll come back with things that are here and are slightly further into the character that you might not have been able to
think of cuz you're thinking about angles and like lighting and and all the other things whereas they're just thinking about the character. So I I think of it as almost more of a
conversation I think working with actors. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
And from an actor's perspective, that's their one job to fully commit to the character. And then they in turn, they're offering their personalities, their identity into the
role and and their vision at the same time. So >> how does it work differently with with documentary? like when when like for example when you've got a subject in a
documentary, how much do you sort of work with them in terms of trying to you know find their character in the film? >> Yeah. The the character comes out
through the interviews and it's it's it's a matter of not being open to not sticking to the questions on the interview screen. Like when you're
directing, it's a matter of >> rolling with them, you know, like bringing out the best in them that suits the narrative and it's the openness to
that. Um, literally what you guys are doing like being open with letting actors give their input at the same time. >> Yeah. Cuz I can imagine if you sort of
try and force the character to be exactly how you were imagining them to be, it it wouldn't go well. >> Yeah. You lose authenticity, I guess.
>> Yeah. You just can't. It takes away from the momentum. I mean, it's like if you can capture that feeling of connection between you and the person you're
interviewing versus making it forced and just sticking to the script, like that's what people feel at the end of the day, right? And in in documentary film,
you're trying to capture sound bites. And what makes for the best sound bites often is like the emotion that goes behind the words. I I mean, I think
about this in music, right? in music like think like every single love song it's basically the same thing at least in my head but to me what makes
a love song unique it's not the it's not what they say it's the way they say it and it's the same thing in film
>> yeah I guess >> yeah music there is the crossovers between music and films or especially short films is really interesting I
think there's a lot of like common grounds over what kind of goes into the processes? I'm not sure. We both don't make music
uh to any major extent but uh I assume that like with a film for example and similar in science and a
bunch of other um categories there's like this sense of you have an idea or you have something you want to speak on and then as soon as you have that it's
kind of a battle or race to see what's the best version of that that you can express to other people in a meaningful way and to get them to
understand what you're talking about. So I think there >> I'm I'm quite inspired by m musical artists um like you know where like there
there's a there's an artist we both like called DC3. >> Yeah. >> Who's like a rapper from the UK who's quite young he's similar age to us
>> and like whenever I listen to his stuff I'm always so inspired cuz I'm just like oh man he's the same age he's so young
he's making these amazing things and it's like oh we need to keep making cool stuff like you know. >> Yeah. It's hearing creatives voices and
new ways of delivering stuff. It's epic. >> Uh, do you guys know Bugsy Malone? >> Bugsy Malone? I recognize the name Bugsy
Malone. Remind me who he is. >> Yeah, he's uh he's a a British rapper from Manchester. >> Oh, yes. Yeah. No, I know. I know Buzzy
Malone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I I love his freestyles. He he goes on this um the show called Fire in the Booth
>> on Fire in the Booth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I mean like Charlie Sloth the entire time is gassing him up like more than he
would anyone else. >> Yeah. I love that you was showing me that. Is that the guy who like has loads of sounds and like Yeah, he's uh Charlie
Sloth, right? Um >> that's right. >> Yeah, he has cool stuff. He does he brings on some cool people. I think he also brought on DC3 uh recently. I got I
got to check out this guy. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Do you like Do you like sort of UK rap grime and stuff? >> I do. Um, again, it's like it's not the
lyrics. It's just the way it makes me feel like and rap especially. I mean, rap is my favorite genre of music. I would consider like
>> I would I'd consider 10% of it is what I love. The other 90% I just can't like I can't stand. But it's the 10% that makes
rap for me. Like that's what I love about it. >> You know what I'm saying? >> If you can combine meaning, flow, emotion, and pack it all into a really
good beat. >> Yeah. >> I I don't think there's anything that gets me going more. >> Oh, yeah. >> Nothing beats it. >> I agree. We both love rap as well.
>> Yeah. And also the fact that like with some uh songs, it's so uh lyrically or like information dense. You can get so much across or the artists get so much
across in like 2 minutes. Um, it's great. >> Yeah. And I think the key to that is giving your attention. That that's like your most valuable asset. I that's what
the way I see like can you focus on what they're saying? Can you focus on what they're trying to put across? >> And I think that translates over into
film. Like >> you guys um you you guys are creating short films, right? But today's audience, they're more fastpaced, right? With shorts and and and everything else.
Like it's a lot harder to focus. And by focus, that's when you find the meaning. Like you can't watch your films. I'm talking about, you know, and you like
and and be on your phone at the same time. You have to be fully there. You have to be present. And it has to be an
immersive experience. >> Well, there's there's a couple interesting things on this. It's like so I um I know a writer who's who's a friend of mine and she was telling me
that now on TV shows they write it so that you can be on your phone and still understand the plot. >> So like
>> this I remember Noah was telling >> So like the the scripts are now starting to be written where an an audience can not actually be looking at the the TV
episode and still get the plot. >> Yeah. Wasn't it something like I from memory I think you and someone else was telling me about this but it's like
they'll include a plot point in different ways more than once so that let's say I'm on my phone and the character says oh we need to go to this
place and I miss it then 10 minutes later I can catch it again when I'm off my social media >> which is crazy but
>> it's evolving so I guess it evolves with it. But but and on that there's another thing that I think at least for us is a
is a positive. So because everything's getting shorter, right? And I don't know if you've heard of micro dramas. >> I have not. >> Wow. Okay. So micro dramas are like this
massive thing. Um, so it's basically port it's portrait dramas where episodes are about 30 seconds long and there might be like 100
plus episodes and it's got massive in China. It's starting to get big in the US. Um, and the money in it is insane. Like the money that's going into it is
crazy. Um, but yeah, they're like these really not very good super short scrollable dramas and it's it's like the model is you pay to keep watching
episodes. But what I think is because people are moving to that, I think there's going to be more and more of a space for short films on YouTube. So
instead of watching a longer form film like an hour episode, people might come on to YouTube and watch, I don't know, four short films that are 15 minutes.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's also uh almost like a lifestyle based thing. I think people appreciate stuff that can be easily like entertaining and then
turned off instantly. Like sometimes people don't have time to watch a 2hour film even though they're growing far past that these days to 3 4 hours. Um so
yeah, there's I think there's a space for stuff that's like short and gets a message across like instantly like a I don't know burst of fire just
>> here's a message. I mean, I think about this myself, like if I'm if I'm having lunch, I want to watch like a 15 20 minute video, you
know, catch the beginning and and then before I move on with my day. And then there's the other part of me that's I don't want to say against, but very
hesitant towards this new progression of of storytelling because in my mind, it's like it's taking the
meaning out for entertainment. And >> and yes, we need to be entertained, but just as much, if not more than being
entertained, we need to feel connected. And that's what meaningful films do. Now, I could be very pessimistic about this whole ordeal because, you know,
there there's plenty of things to be pessimistic about, but I try and remain open. and what you guys said about, you know, these short films still being able
to drive that, I it's really inspiring to see. >> Yeah. And I also think there's in some ways you can still get meaning across in
the shorter form. It's just you have to be more concise in a way >> which kind of forces you like you have to make decisions. Like sometimes in in
longer films there's a period where not much is happening but because you're in the cinema that's fine. Like the director can just leave a big space of
of not much going on. But in short films you're forced to just compress it and lose all of those gaps which in some ways is a good thing. It's it's
definitely to be said that it's a completely different art medium or at least in our opinion. We agree that it's like you have feature films and they're
set to do a very specific thing and we love them and admire them and there's amazing films out there and we aspire to them but there's also this space of
taking someone in and being like look at these 10 minutes. We're going to make you feel as much as possible as quick as possible. How did you feel? and that's
its own art form and we love doing that as well. >> Yeah. Um and I guess my my my opinion was more towards those like short mini
dramas that you guys were talking to earlier. I think another part of the the feeling aspect though it comes from getting to know the character. It it
like you know in in um 1 second late like I felt like I knew the guy rushing to the train station like the girl
sitting on the train station like even though it was like shorter introduction to the character like I still feel like I got a sense of who they were like the
guy you know like not like being a little bit shy to talk to the girl and then finally mustering up the courage to ask for a drink later. like I that
showed a lot about his personality and and who he was and then the girl like she her being open and asking him questions open demeanor at the same time
like I I got to know them so I felt like connected to the characters same like that's what I feel about the longer feature feature films or like the medium
you guys are doing. I think that connectedness, that's what brings out the most uh that that's what brings out the most emotion and the biggest
takeaway because you could watch like a one minute short, but you're going to forget about it like five scrolls later. You know, I watched your short films a
couple like a week ago and I I still remember. >> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah, that means a lot. >> Can I can I ask So, I heard something.
I'm curious to hear what you both think of this. Yeah. >> So, I heard that um piece of advice that short films are often about an event,
right? They're about something that happens, whereas feature films are often about charact. And it's kind of so yeah, in feature
films, story comes from character, whereas in short films, the story is about an event. And I thought that's quite interesting, like an interesting way of looking at it. I don't know if I
agree with it fully, but yeah. >> Yeah, there's something interesting it that you see a feature film and a lot of the times I think in that sense that
theory does have some correct uh elements to it of like you'll watch a feature film and the thing that drives it forwards a lot of the time is the
character. like the character will either want something desperately or there'll be some kind of relationship or some kind of motive but internally that
pushes it forwards where a short film a lot of the times in the first 10 seconds something that pushes the rest of it >> but on other senses it's incorrect in
some forms so it's like figuring out >> I don't know it's a thinking topic >> I think it's and I'm trying to think about this from the bigger picture
because Julie I I agree with you. It is a case by case basis, but in short films, it feels like the main thing you
have to do is show the conflict early on, right? And the best way to introduce conflict is some sort of event that's happening, right? It allows for the full
like 10, 20 minutes to be taken by that conflict. Like you're just jumping into the peak of the story. So, an event can definitely make that a lot uh easier.
But also, it's like I I've seen some short films where it's just not the case. They're >> they're just showing like I watched this
one short film. I I just can't remember the name of it, >> but I don't know if you guys have seen this, but it's about like these two
neighbors in New York. They live in opposite apartments and they have views towards each other's windows. >> You've seen this, right? It is. This one
was brilliant. >> And on one end, like you see this couple, they're young, they're partying, like they're having a good time. And then on the other side, you see this
like family with kids kind of worn down or like fully immersed in this family life. And the family, they're looking at this young couple, like the the husband
and wife, they're looking at them and they're envious, you know, and then you come to find out at the end of the film like that the young couple was looking
well the young couple was looking across at them and they wanted what they had and there weren't any like major events to to show that. I I just think it's
like it it really depends. >> You're right. That that that that's almost more about character, >> isn't it? It's like about the story result comes from the characters as
opposed to coming from an event. >> But in turn, that's interesting actually that structure. So you said that this kind of thing that's revealed is
revealed at the end that they were looking both ways. Yeah. So, I think to another speaking point, it's almost like maybe the reason why a lot of or like
the majority of short films feel like they're actionled or action- based is because it's really really hard in the start of a short film to establish a
character so the audience knows them well enough to uh justify any major action. Where in a feature film, you have 20 30 minutes to establish that
before something happens. But I guess then in the short film you can do it reversed which is a really cool structure and reveals something
character based at the end. >> Yeah. And I guess to add to that Julie like the event it also shows the most about the character cuz our character
like ourselves who we truly are it's shown when we're tested the most. Like in in Madros I don't know if I'm pronouncing the the name of the short
film right but it's like He by the way you guys didn't like show like I saw you know this this one kid he's going off to like some islands
other kid like you could tell he has a very difficult home life you get that and then them swimming together them bonding and then the guy going off on
his own like that was who his character was. So in a sense like the events they show the character maybe the introduction isn't as necessary for a
short film how well you might show the event and then in the and then this made me think too like in the short film with
the you know two opposing neighbors I think what it it spoke out to us as humans where we constantly compare ourselves like something that's very
like deep inside of us is constant comparison. So I think that's what like brought people into the film. That was the hook like this survival mechanism we
have good or bad like that like everyone was able to relate to that. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's always like if you can find a way of creating a car a story
where your character is something that's universally felt by people then you're always going to have success with that. Do you have a favorite short film or is that a really
hard question to ask? cuz I feel like you're the you're the guy to ask. You've seen so many. Yeah,
>> that's a good question. >> Long ago I gave up playing favorites. Um I think that the mo the short film I was talking
about is my favorite right now. M >> um and honestly the short films that stuck out to me the most were the ones
that made me feel. There's this one called Alien and uh it's directed by this guy called Sam Cutler.
It's about this couple trying to so the the mother she's uh she's an American or the wife is an American and then the her
husband he's like an illegal immigrant in the US and it's about the story of them at the immigration center trying to get their paperwork and then they are
conflicted with and then ICE gets into the mix. >> Wow. and >> sounds like an interesting concept. Yeah,
>> it it it was um it it showed how quickly our connect our connectedness could be separated
>> and yeah, that just that just stuck with me. >> And was that on YouTube? >> On YouTube. Yep. Sam Cutler Alien. A and then Leen on this side. But he he
makes some pretty good um >> short films. >> Do you go to many film? Have you been to film festivals and watch short films at
festivals? >> Yeah. So no, I am like very new into film like maybe you know six months actually into like producing
and directing and I have not yet got gotten the opportunity to go to any film festivals. But I'm hoping that's going to change because ones local to you?
>> What's that? >> Are there film festivals local to where you are? >> Yes, there's one in Nantucket. It's like an island right off of Boston. That's a
very big film festival. So, I I do want to go there, but I I really don't mind uh traveling to to go to other film
festivals. I mean, today I leave um I'm going to like the Balkans for two weeks, and >> hopefully there will be like a film
festival there for me to catch. >> Yeah. Yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, film festivals are an interesting space. Like we've been to we've been
lucky enough to go to quite a few now. Uh, and they always surprise us with like the level of films or the variance in films that get displayed cuz you'd
think a lot of them would be similar to what you see on YouTube and stuff, but then you go and there's a lot of the
percentage of films that are really different or they speak on things that you're not used to seeing and it's like very eye opening. >> It's a different kind of space, isn't
it? >> Like you you get different kind of films to YouTube. they're a lot more often slower paced and it's there's often more space given to just the artisticness of
film making. Um, one film festival that was that was really good was Nifty. We went to Nifty and that's in Seattle. >> Mhm. >> Yeah.
>> Um, that was amazing and that that was our first time in the US. So, we went to the US for the first time uh for about
was it 3 weeks something? Yeah, just about. >> When was this? recently. This was just over a month ago, I want to say. >> Okay.
>> Um, >> yeah. But yeah, it was great. And like the level of films there, that was the main thing that stood out to us. Like
the level of films there was through the roof. Everything looked beautiful. All of the stories were amazing. >> But then beyond that, the people that
you meet there are like cuz you have the film. It's a special space actually festival cuz it's like you go into a dark room, you see like five films but
then the real variance is you step out and the people that just put like their personality or their soul on display to you in the film are standing right
there. You can befriend them and talk to them and try and understand how they brought that to life which is a really rare thing I think in the world to see
something and then being able to instantly talk to that person. >> Now, do their personalities match what you saw in the film? Like when you're
watching the film, you're kind of getting a sense of who they are, but then when you meet them in person. >> Yeah. It's like sometimes it's like
exactly like you see the person, you can even tell across the room who made what film without sometimes, >> but and then sometimes it's completely
the opposite. There'll be like a really happy film that's like about like really bold topics and the person that made it is like super quiet. Sometimes I think
it's the opposite of what we um are as a person that some people make films about. Thank you for watching today's
episode. I just wanted to remind you guys that today's episode is also interactive with Click where you can give real time feedback and be part of
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